On Easter Sunday, almost 1000 signatures were turned into the Board of Elections from voters who wished to put a Chestertown Town Council ordinance banning plastic bag use on a ballot referendum. This is reportedly the first time in over 30 years that citizens have been motivated to start a petition drive to overturn a Council ordinance. Is it the actual plastic bag ban itself that has caused such a disturbance among the Kent County electorate, is it the process by which it was passed on a 3-2 vote, or is it a symptom of a deeper divide in the whole country between those who put environmental priorities above rescuing our struggling economy?
Capitalism has been the engine of the American economy since the United States was founded, and it is an engine that runs best on only one fuel… an unfettered profit motive. With capitalism, there is the prospect of great success, and the risk of great failure… with, however, always the chance to try again. [Witness the career of Donald Trump, who has been bankrupt more than once in his life, but is presently riding high.] One thing capitalism does not provide, however, is a safety net or a guarantee of “fairness.”
In the last two decades, well-meaning politicians have tried to make up for this by removing the risk of failure from a capitalist economy with subsidies and tax credits for unprofitable “green” businesses with government-backed securities like Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, providing no-risk mortgages for people who can’t afford them, with bank bailouts, and by burdening the free-market health care system with regulations that prevent competition from keeping costs down. When you remove the risk of failure from capitalism, then human greed runs rampant and leads to the world-wide financial bubbles that caused our current recession.
In addition, regulations imposed to protect the environment have prevented us from having an efficient energy policy, at great cost to the smooth functioning of our daily lives… witness the high gasoline prices that currently are a direct result of not being able to produce our own oil and natural gas in America. This leads to higher food costs, high unemployment, and great anxiety. The government has tried to alleviate the discomfort of the populace by overspending, creating huge bureaucracies that lead to waste, fraud, inflation, and corruption.
So there you have it, folks. We have a deficit in our budget each year that runs into more than a trillion dollars, we have a debt that runs into the tens of trillions, and nothing but economic disaster facing us unless we say, Stop Spending Right Now! If we had a balanced budget today, and never spent one more dime than we had, it would take the government 389 YEARS paying $150,000,000 a day to pay off our debt. In the two years of the Obama Administration, government spending has increased 27 times as much as the previous spending in our entire history… imagine driving at 65 mph on a highway and being passed by someone going 27 times at fast…that person passing you would be going 1,555 mph!!!
I wish I had the answers as to how to fix this situation. I know we have to get some clean “fuel” to our economy… i.e. a profit motive that is free of taxes and regulations, so that the engine of capitalism can begin to move forward again. We need to remove some of the weight of debt and deficit spending so that the engine won’t have to work so hard, and we have to do all of this without throwing those who are genuinely in need under the bus. I do know that our economy at the moment is running on fumes, and that if we fail in our attempt to get it going again, we are going to find bodies littering the urban landscapes and not just plastic bags.
Len H says
How many readers are paying attention to what is in this article. I hope everyone who reads this is doing something to help to correct it. Word for word it is the truth and we will be a third world country or less unless it is corrected. The spending has got to be slowed down and give the cintrol of economy back to the people.
This adminstration has done more harm to our country then the last 5 administrations combined, I think. I lived through WW2 and we had it better with the rationing and shortages for a lot less money but we lived and were happy and worked together.
I am 83 years old and it breaks my heart to see what they have done to our beutifull Country. The Country is on the verge of bankruptcy, overrun by illigal imigrents, having our Bill Of Rights and Constitution changed, unable for the average person to make a decent living or make enough money to pay the high cost of living.
We need a big change in our Government Administration as soon as possible
Steve Cades says
Ms. Mcginnes has her American History half right; yes capitalism is a (that is, one) pillar of American success. But the other is government regulation and intervention. The US spent taxpayer money (gasp!) on the Louisiana Purchase, and on Seward’s Folly–what is now the state of Alaska. The US GAVE huge tracts of American land to the builders of the transcontinental railroad, most of which the railroads sold off to settlers, to finance the railroad, without which California would have been knitted to the eastern United States much more slowly.
Before the New Deal’s invention of Social Security, most older folks lived in poverty. Without government funding of public education, we would have educated children of the well-off, and illiterate children of the poor. Without the EPA’s controls, we on the Eastern Shore would be stewing in a mix of smog and acid rain, generated by the coal-burning electric power plants of the midwest. And what would have incentivized the capitalist owners of those power plants to control the sulfurous products of their smokestacks that only harmed people like us, living three hundred miles downwind?
What, then, is the unmentioned second pillar of Ms. McGinnes’ argument? Simply, “commonwealth.” Yes, we are a nation founded on individualism and independence, but also, the Founders asserted repeatedly that, as Benjamin Franklin said, “We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.” Virginia, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, and Massachusetts call themselves, formally, commonwealths. That is, their founders recognized that we citizens are all in it together. We may praise–and benefit from–our individual success, but from time to time, often without warning, we, both as individuals and communities will be subject to forces we can neither control nor singlehandedly overcome. Yes, the Red Cross pitches in when large-scale disaster strikes, but so does the national Guard and (sometimes, not so effectively) the Federal Emergency Management Administration. Want either of the last two to be dismantled so private enterprise can clear roads, restore water systems, build emergency housing, provide safe water…. ? What should happen when your child or grandchild, uninsured because she or her parents can’t afford it is hit by a car, or afflicted by cancer? Should she simply be allowed to die? Should capitalistic hospitals give away shareholders’ money by providing free care?
I understand people’s concern about the potential weight of federal debt on our children and grandchildren, but it remains the case that we badly need regulation of corporate activities. Want to abolish regulation of food safety or the safety of drugs and medical equipment? Let me suggest that you borrow a copy of Sinclair Lewis’s “The Jungle” from the Kent County Library and then consider if such regulations can be abandoned. There are virtually no economists, of any political stripe, who would argue that there should be no government regulation of American corporations. We are arguing about the degree of regulation, and that’s entirely proper; politics is the way by which we have that argument, and the pendulum has swung from conservative to progressive, and back again, repeatedly over our 235 years. But neither conservatives nor progressives should forget that individualism and commonwealth are the co-equal pillars on which our society stands, and by which it has been supported throughout our history.
Cynthia McGinnes says
I am sorry if I gave the impression that I felt there was no room for government regulation, as we cannot throw the truly needy under the bus. However, speaking of the engine of capitalism that drives the economy, the only fuel for that engine is unfettered profit motive. For this to work,it is essential that the risk of failure not be removed, and it is here that government interference can have the most disastrous effect. We cannot keep bailing out and subsidizing unprofitable businesses and banks and mortgages.
As I said, I don’t know how to fix this, but I do know we have to let the economy function without strangling taxation and regulations. When the government (NLRB) tells Boeing that it cannot build a second factory in a right-to-work state because it could be construed as an intimidation of unions that is too much control of a business’s decisions on how to best operate. When the EPA tells Shell Oil to shut down an Alaskan oil drill to protect a small Eskimo village over 70 miles away from possible emissions, that puts too much emphasis on regulation. When thousands of acres of productive farmland in California are deprived of water to protect a small fish, that reflects the wrong priority.
We have to deal with the situation we are in…NOW. We cannot keep fighting over government spending when the only money the government has comes from tax revenue, and a struggling economy cannot produce enough.Printing money, debt, and deficits will lead to disaster. At this point in time, I am more concerned about the people than the pelicans. If we don’t get our economy moving again …if more than 50% of the people are dependent on government spending…the whole house of cards will come crashing down.
Bay Boy says
I don’t get why every issue many people put a label on it based on the side of the aisle they believe they think it should fall. It is then expected everyone should line up in defense or support based on their political ideals. Not all issues are that simple, that is why they are issues and we have elected officials and courts systems to interpert the constitutional rights our forefathers mapped out for us, including George Washington who spent time enjoying our wonderful town on the Chester.
I am someone who considers myself a capitalist. I am registered Independent although in most state and national elections I vote Republican. As I try to objectively look at the plastic bag ban I can weigh the cost of literally of a few pennies to not having a bag exist on our planet for many future generations of my family. Some laws are needed for the public good assuming they clearly pass the common sense test and business sense test if applicable. Try to think on your own instead of following the herd of talking point zombies. The earlier posts were right of of Fox TV and MSNBC. Although global in scope this is a local issue that allows us to lead the way either pro or con. Just make sure you are voicing your opinion based on your own thoughts, not a perceived label you have bought into about yourself.
Laura D says
Regardless of how one feels about the plastic bag ban, this writer puts forward a (dare we say it) illiterate broad-brush diatribe against anything and everything in the past century that she thinks is somehow responsible for her, or her associates, problems. It is too absurd that so many people have taken her bait and postulated on history, literature, the library, etc., etc., etc. It’s all someone else’s fault…LOL
Doesn’t the Spy take an occasional reality pill in monitoring such comments?
adaptor says
@ Steve Cades,
Well-reasoned and well stated.
Stephan Sonn says
My comment on T Bagger McGinnis is that she sticks to her script even if it flies in the face of factors in evidence including modern institutional concepts of basic human decency .
No doubt this the soapbox she finds here suits her best. Capitalism is an economic philosophy not a religion. Capitalism is a useful contraption that should and can bear the weight of social responsibility .The middle class lumped together with the poor have about 15% of the wealth in this country. and strata is gradually becoming the NEW middle/class poor via T Party SOCIAL ENGINEERING.
I am 70 and have had my share of surgeries over the years. Certainly, by private insurance standards, I am not a good candidate for the continuation of health maintenance for the next 10 years if I make it. …And yes Medicare is a money cow for assembly line. medicine as it is PRESENTLY practiced in America. I am sorry Ms McGines if you think I am on YOUR dole, because what you preach is heartless, despite condescending references to “the poor.
It is pretty clear that T Party II finds no fault with any excess serving their AGENDA including starting a well funded class war. So we will have another wave election if things take their natural course but STALEMATE OBER ALLIS, as long as there are FALSE PROFITS (PROPHETS)in the mix.
Steve Payne says
“In the two years of the Obama Administration, government spending has increased 27 times as much as the previous spending in our entire history”
From 2000-2008 Total fed spending went up over 2 Trillion. From 2009 to 2010 fed spending went up about .5 Trillion. From 2009-2010 Federal spending actually went down a small amount. Most of the spending in 2009 was legislated prior to that (as was most of 2010).
I agree that spending needs to be reduced, but to cure the deficit a balanced approach like the Simpson Bowles report recommends seems like the proper way to look at it.
I don’t think any of us will find the answer on how to fix this if we make decisions based on bad information and a “Burn Down the House” approach.
Stephan Sonn says
When the paperhanger began his trek in Austria to Germany who could have imagined the power of lies. If the truth hinders, just lie. If the truth be known SuperFresh has been a failing enterprise for some time. Paper V plastic bags was not the tipping point.
The handwriting is on the wall. The Socialist boogie-man is more invention than fact which is why anti-government initiatives are so well funded by the T Party II . Medicare is breaking the economy even as we speak. It is asset of the middle class built on tax money stolen from its true owners by meddling government .
Vice in capitalism is not innate it is inseminated by people who take advantage of it. If Ayn Rand were alive today i doubt that the losers who cherish her name would be welcome at her digs.
Keith Thompson says
#1. What exactly does the talk of the national deficit and the pros and cons of capitalism have to do with the plastic bag ordinance in Chestertown? A think a little focus is necessary here.
#2. Speaking of focus…While a petition and a referendum rightfully gives a voice to the citizens of the town, to rehash this issue takes the focus away from the real issues. To me it’s a shame that all of the effort that is going into debating plastic bags could be spent on developing an economic plan for the town.
Stephan Sonn says
@Keith Thompson
What the adults are talking about here Keith are larger issues that hide behind the political mechanics of the plastic bag environmental issue.
Some of us are talking about is an anti democracy anti government front group here in this quaint little town.
I will take it a bit further than others who have commented.
The movement is quite dangerous in my opinion.
Stephan Sonn says
@Laura D
I actually thank The Spy moderator tor letting illiterate broad-brush agitators to speak their mind.
If not outed, they would be free incite mobs from under the radar.
Thank you Mr Editor.
Warrior Bob Kramer says
Keith says “To me it’s a shame that all of the effort that is going into debating plastic bags could be spent on developing an economic plan for the town.”
You’ve got to think about the number of people who signed this petition… and put it in perspective.
Almost 2 1/2 times the number of Chestertownies signed the petition than voted in the last Chestertown election.
1,000 voters represent almost 20% of the entire resident population of Chestertown.
1,000 voters represent about 7% of the voters in the County of Kent and a little less than 5% of the entire resident population of the county.
I agee with you 100%. These are some amazing numbers… and focused on something productive… like economic development. But then again… it’s easy to talk/sign a piece of paper. It’s another actually doing something positve and contributing to your community.
Keith Thompson says
Stephan Sonn writes…”What the adults are talking about here Keith are larger issues that hide behind the political mechanics of the plastic bag environmental issue.
Some of us are talking about is an anti democracy anti government front group here in this quaint little town.
I will take it a bit further than others who have commented.
The movement is quite dangerous in my opinion.
Keith replies…”what the children are noticing here Stephan, is that this quaint little town is teeming with empty storefronts, shabby looking shopping centers, and residents who choose to travel at least 30 miles to spend their money to build up the tax base in Middletown and Dover. The children are getting quite a bit frustrated with the adults who are spending time arguing about politics or quibbling over plastic bags rather than rolling up their sleeves and actually doing something productive”.
Stephan Sonn says
@Keith
Do you have any solutions to offer besides…. do something!
I already said that in the KCN on the same topic.
Do you honestly think that while our nation is fighting the second civil war there is any serious hope for saving Chestertown. That would require a reconstruction.There isn’t a serious program or enforcible policy in place to save jobs let alone redevelop this town as say… a retirement haven.
Atlas is shrugging, by design. People writing here know all about that.
What would you do besides ignore history?
You don’t have to be a Washington College professor to know that this entire country has to address the continued commitment to domestic idealogical conflict that shakes this nation to the core.
You don’t fix that deliberate divide, with a schoolhouse platitude.
Stephan Sonn says
Chestertown is a sleepy southern town and people like it that way. Years back when upper High Street became an eyesore a few players jumped in to clean out the Barkers nest, probably because it was so ugly to their eyes while driving by.
Downtown stores are either pet projects or failed experiments with a few bright spots…and that was going on way before the current economic black hole opened up. Except for those few bright spots, profit doesn’t have to be a serious issue because attrition washes away all all the sins of failure.
Much of the apartment construction is federally backed because building for the poor and disadvantaged is not a good investment.
There are no dynamics favoring new industry here. For good or bad Roy Kirby tried to infuse some new blood and new thinking in the mix( bless his heart) but those results were spotty at best.
Chestertown is not a likely candidate for rejuvenation except by a change of heart on the part of the local money establishment. Don’t count on it, they have no incentive and a lot of encouragement from some groups to pass on everything, as a political statement. Whatever happened to that job thing the new Congress was going to make happen?
So the bag issue is big in this small town that generates little news. The bag issue and the national divide beneath, is a case study for future social scientists or a Gothic tale for better writers than me.
Keith Thompson says
Stephan,
All politics is local.
The definitions of “something” as it pertains to Chestertown…
Invest in your resources. My suggestion is the marina and riverfront. Purchase the marina from Roy Kirby and make it a part of a riverfront project that will be an economic hub that draws people to the downtown. If the marina purchase is deemed too risky, you encourage more visiblity with the college downtown and allow business to cater to the students and faculty. If all else fails, don’t outright reject more conventional means like retail or restaurant chains if its your last resort.
Have zoning reflect the best economic interests for today rather than 30 years ago.
Have a mayor and council who will act as cheerleaders for the town rather than promote political causes.
If necessary, get refreshers on the previous item from the neighbors in Rock Hall.
Finally, change your perspective. Instead of trying to initiate change from the top down, initiate change from the bottom up. Let the country learn from the town and not vice versa. You’re far more likely to change the culture of a few thousand people at a time than everybody at once.
The most important thing here is dialogue. As long you see those you disagree with as adversaries, you’re always fighting a war that neither side will win.
Cynthia McGinnes says
I am happy to see that my op-ed has encouraged dialogue…I could wish for fewer personal attacks, and would only protest that while I have many things I need to work on in my life, I don’t believe most people would consider me illiterate.
Warrior Bob Kramer says
Ms McGinnes (sorry for the typo last time… I’m not very adroit with my left hand on the keyboard) says: “I don’t believe most people would consider me illiterate.”
While we may differ on plastic bags and on some other political issues… I certainly don’t think that anyone who actually reads all of Ms McGinnes’s comments and has chatted with her face to face would call her illiterate.
To her credit… she has moved the discussion to another level… and maybe more productive level… based on some of the above comments.
MD Eastern Shore says
Please, allow me to sum up:
Government has become too intrusive at all levels. This is at least in part because those who can’t get their way through persuasion revert to the dead hand of one size fits all government control. Anyone who believes government is doing to little needs to move to the workers paradise of Cuba. Cold War East Germany, if it still existed, also comes to mind, as a fine example of no-choice, rather than pro-choice.
The plastic bag issue is one where the people of this town clearly want choices when it comes to getting home from the store. In this case, pro-choice means you can have paper, plastic, or bring your own. What a great country!
But the government of Chestertown, apparently short of better things to do, has decided that they make better choices than the populace, and therefore have declared no more choice! when it comes to transporting purchases. But it appears the constituents disagree. They want their choices back.
The Chestertown council and mayor would best serve our town by immediately repealing this governmental overreach. It’d be an awful lot cheaper than a special election.
By the way, am I the only person to observe that the vast majority of trash blowing around our county appears to be paper bags from McDonalds?
Warrior Bob Kramer says
MD-ES says: “By the way, am I the only person to observe that the vast majority of trash blowing around our county appears to be paper bags from McDonalds?”
In June of ’06 I adopted Coopers Lane… and had my first cleanup. While not scientific… I did pick up McD bags, cups, straws and burger boxes… all non-bio-degradable at that time… more than any other single source that I could ID. Key Stone Light seemed to be the beer of choice… and Early Times mini’s the liquor of choice. And there were other assorted debris littering the road side. Since the corn was about waste high I didn’t get a good look into the fields, but had a pretty good fix on the first 8 to 10 feet in from the road. Yeah, there were some thin plastic bags, but not as many as I thought.
I actually had several chats with the manager of the local McD’s about their containers and goods finding their way to the suburbs of Worton. I was politely directed to McD’s dept of propaganda in IL… and exchanged several constructive (mine) and innocuous (theirs) e-mails. We finally came to the conclusion that it wasn’t McD’s policy to advertise as litter along the side of rural byways… and ended up having productive discussions about McD’s commitment to the environment, blah, blah, blah. The good news… as we’ve seen, McD’s uses paper bags, cups and burger boxes now.
Moving on… after the crops had been cleared from the fields in October… I had another cleanup. Now I could see deep into the fields… and it appeared that a new crop had sprouted… as thin plastic bags were very visible… blowing in the wind or ground in to the soil. And this trend has continued through this past October, when I retired from the clean up job. The good news though… the McD’s and Burger King (think how far these had to come) products now were in various stages of deterioration.
Like the gun issue… guns don’t kill… people do. These bags didn’t get there by themselves. But what I’ve somewhat rationalized after 5 years of litter duty… litter is what I can get to within the right of way. The fact that very little litter made it into the heartland of the fields seemed significant… as only the thin plastic bags seemed to stray so far out of reach.
The fact is… there are better alternatives to plastic and paper bags… some available now and some on the horizon. Re-usable bags that are made out of recycled polypropylene (I spray mine with Lysol) have not been identified with any food poisoning cases in Ireland, DC or any other place for that matter. This in view of the fact that the US loses almost $10 Billion worth of productivity linked to bacterial sicknesses derived from contaminated packaged meat and poultry.
The future… University of Nebraska has produced a bio-plastic from featherdust and non-petro polymers. Pepsi recently displayed a bio-plastic bottle made from switch grass, pine bark and cornhusks and non-petro polymers… which is superior to bio-plastics made from corn or potato starch. Then there is the bio-plastic being made from orange peels and almond shells… mixed again with non-petro polymers. All bio-degradable.
In any case… in five years we won’t have to worry about this. It’ll all be a non-issue.
Stephan Sonn says
Seems like government is all about sucking the life’s blood out of corporal beings and corporation alike, if for one minute you believe the redundant script passing for democratic give and take over the bag issue. So now there is a relief pitcher.
All politics is now national and it is being practiced Wal-mart style… on a grid. The effort is to discredit government, even over environmental issues.
I expect that bag ordinance will be overturned. Reactionaries do thrive in a town like ours, cowed by economics.
But all of this works both ways people are not going to abandon their Medicare and their Social Security because it is government run.
Warrior Bob I like your style and substance…and your optimistic stance. At this point in history with the Barbarians at the gate, you speak well for humanity.
Cynthia McGinnes says
Stephen Sonn says “People are not going to abandon their Medicare and their Social Security because it is government run”…the whole point is that there won’t be enough MONEY to pay for the Medicare and Social Security programs unless we try to make some adjustments now. Paul Ryan’s new budget calls for Medicare reforms where those who have more wealth will pay more, among other changes….he is being shouted down and demonized, even though these changes won’t affect anyone currently 55 and over.
We need to stop shouting at each other, and try to think outside the box….we are an aging population, and unless we think of something, there is no way that 20 years from now, Medicare and Social Security will be solvent.
Stephan Sonn says
@ Cynthia McGinnes
What we have here is a failure to communicate Cynthia. I imagine that you think that government is robbing you of your real or imagined fortune by taxing you for somebody else’s health problems or old age security.
It may surprise you to know that I find government interactions with officials and clerks to be one of life’s most tedious tasks when I have to engage them in business or for personal reasons. I would never be on a government payroll. I am just not built that way.
Neither do I relish class wars, but I do cherish survival.
There is no longer an viable middle class that can pay its way as T Baggers propose that they do… using vouchers. Pension plans and job security for the average worker are a thing of the past. Ronald Reagan did not set out to rob the middle class of their independent viability, but it happened.
The problem is with the professional medical establishment’s economics.. Since 1966 doctors have vowed to break Medicare as a Socialist vehicle. In the process they and the NEAR DEATH INDUSTRY turned it all into a cash cow. Since our infant mortality is ranked 37th in the world, you have to wonder where the priorities are placed. Putting it another way there is more profit in treating the nearly dead than the almost alive.
Bluntly speaking there are just too many old people like myself alive and demanding services which the get, perhaps by your standards, as a public featherbed that you consider on your dole at your will and command.
Basically you, and your peers, do not want to pay taxes for the problems that your Ayn Rand at risk mantra promote. Grandpa can no longer drift-off at sunset of his life in the rocking chair ,when he doesn’t even have a front porch or Maiden Aunt Emily to fetch his hot water bottle.
There are ways to get along, you however have other ideas. Certainly none of them include paying taxes.
As for Paul Ryan Hollywood central casting could not find a better modern day version of the contrarian Sheriff of Nottingham.
Cynthia McGinnes says
@Stephen Sonn… we don’t disagree on everything. I have volunteered in the local nursing homes and seen an 87 year old woman, crippled by arthritis, made uncommunicable by Alzheimer’s, subjected to a total mastectomy because she developed a cancerous lump in her breast. At her age, the cancer would not have killed her, the Alzheimer’s was so far progressed.Yet the nursing home was required to put her through the surgery (at Medicare expense) because they were afraid of a lawsuit from relatives if they didn’t. My father, who had terminal lymphoma and Alzheimer’s, passed away last year at age 90. Two weeks before he died, he fell and cracked his hip. The family had to sign reams of papers releasing the hospital and doctors from legal liability because we didn’t see the benefits to putting him through surgery (at Medicare expense). We have to get control of the increase in medical costs due to extra procedures scheduled because of fear of litigation.
I have paid over $500,000 in property taxes to Kent County in the 40+ years I have lived here, even though I have no children of my own to educate. I wonder how many people of liberal persuasion would agree that much of our tax money is wasted on fraud,bureaucracy, and duplicate programs. The whole key to increasing government income is to raise the amount of tax REVENUE, not tax rates. How do you raise tax revenue? This is done through an expanding economy because more people employed means more people paying taxes, and not drawing government paid services.. Raising tax rates on the wealthy only results in them withdrawing their money from business investments ,putting it in tax free bonds, and clipping coupons. You cannot force people to work hard just to pay over 50% of their income (local,state,and federal) in taxes. Human nature won’t allow it…if they are going to give their money to other people, they want to choose who to give it to!
I wish you hadn’t felt the need to personally attack Paul Ryan. He is a decent,hard-working family man, brilliant with numbers, who has tried to find a way to make the numbers work so the country doesn’t go bankrupt. He has said that his plan is not written in stone, that he is open to ideas that could make it better. Have you got an idea of how we can continue with all these entitlements without running out of money? Increasing taxes won’t do it, if you took every penny from people who make over $250,000, it wouldn’t make a dent.
I think we all need to keep thinking and talking, with as few personal attacks that make people angry as possible, and see if we can’t brainstorm our way to a better way that will work.
Stephan Sonn says
Just a brief note as I am going to an unexpected dinner.
Yes I think we can talk and i will offer a hint now and detail later.
I think government waste and private fraud in Medicare needs auditing, seriously by outside players.
Also Tort reform to avoid so many tests taken for fear of malpractice.
Even with the fear of lawsuit reduced medical testing should be more targeted which is to say reduced.
If Obama-care stays and I think it will, waste at will has to stop at every side of the pact.
And yes more taxes better spent rather than just. feeding the beast.
Stephan Sonn says
The previous was @ Cynthia also Mr Ryan needs to be reminded that pain hurts the little folk. There is no such thing as a successful lobotomy.
Stephan Sonn says
@Cynthia
Note to the Editor:
The chickens have come home to roost I think it is time to change the topic to another name.
We are not talking bags here anymore.
OK. So speaking from the position of a methods analyst, as I was at 25 and drawn to New York, I was around and very aware at founding of Medicare. The Frankenstein baby Doctors and the Feds birthed did and does a lot of good but,turned out today to be a fiscal beast mainly because of scientific advances and the resulting prolongation of life expectancy.
It is an actuarial nightmare imposed on unwilling doctors and taxpayers.. Todays Tea Party plays that card well but to what end?
Too many tests because of malpractice fears so tort reform should be a Tea Party demand to get any cooperation. Instead, you hardly hear a word about it any more. Blame the Democrats and lawyers
Doctors like tests and unnecessary operations implants and the like because that creates the present money cow. Blame it on the Republicans and doctors.
Medical Reform (Obama-care) was another bad union. Blame it on both political parties. And so the fights go on and on like the other fights.
This is not a pro and con issue it is a fix it issue but tell that to the Tea Party.
The Eastern Shore is the last place to expect a reconciliation between Left and Right. I came out of retirement to change patient paper files to computer PDF format. I got got as bad a reception as Viet Nam vets got in some liberal urban areas.
Well almost 70 percent of the nation is converted. The holdouts are mostly rural. AKA Chestertown.
Just to give an example of how these issues are exploited …PDF conversion was supposed to be paid for by the Feds at the rate of $48,440 per physician. Many firms charge more. Aside from that, most rural town practice do not have the personnel expertise to initiate and maintain electronic patient records.
The point is at all levels medical care delivery is a hotbed issue that brings out the worst of left and right. And the Left and Right continue to fight rather than fix. Where is the compromise?
So now it is full circle…back to bags I guess.
Stephan Sonn says
@Cynthia.
Let me take the liberal view Cynthia if you would care to reply.
The cost of medical care for seniors is a counterproductive game that serves doctors even as they say that malpractice insurance drives it. In fact, it pays to run up the bill by unnecessary procedures..Obviously the insurance companies benefit here too.
So the interactions of three major American institutions are vested in raised prices for vital service. First the doctor has to maintain his profit margin. The patient needs care that hits the taxpayers with the bill. Then the insurance companies get their share of the booty at another level.
So the implication of all that is real Medical Reform, to the usual worldwide standard. Imperfect but we don’t have that standard, so our per capita cost per patient is among the highest in the world.
So this cash cow needs reform, regulation and a better way to run it than government presently provides. Try that and there are complaints about rationing, death squads, assembly line medicine ( which we already have)…Socialism.
Well big deal!. So does does it mean we are on the way to communism or common sense in just this and only this one interlaced industry? It is not communism, socialism but modern capitalism
This is why Tea Party exists Not answer the problems but to save the status quo. Shift the cost to the consumer/patient.
Nobody should have to live under “socialism” in every enterprise, but the practice of medicine should change to the worldwide standard that puts us on an even footing to compete.
As as my departed friend Tony an avid Ayn Rand supporter said to me years ago that the cost of medical care and social services was a burden that would bring this country down.
To a great degree I agree with Tony but it seems to me that the cure for all this is being marketed as the cause.
Cynthia McGinnes says
This is certainly simplistic, but I would start to reform health care by using tort reform…..get the lawyers out of it. I am tired of the ambulance chasers ads on TV. The first step would be to make the losers of lawsuits pay all legal costs,as in the UK. Secondly, I would allow the purchase of health insurance across state lines. This would open up the insurance industry to more competition, and allow people to own their own health insurance policies as they move from state to state. Finally, I would not allow the drug companies to sell drugs at a loss to other countries like Canada and pass those losses along to American consumers through their insurance companies and Medicare. If the Canadians and EU countries want the drugs, they have to pay what the Americans pay or they don’t get the products…why should Americans pay the difference for the Canadians. If we just started with these three things, we could make a huge dent in our problems.
Stephan Sonn says
Good thoughts Cynthia.
Tort reform is a Republican issue but it is the right idea. The sooner the better. That would be one less spoiler in the mix. Even if lawsuit awards are only three percent of the problem no amount is too small
Also there ought to be a uniform level drug pricing system. The only exception being charities and third world
countries.
If possible insurance companies should pool assets and resources in consortium with government. A not-for-profit single payer entity in a no-fault mode.
Then the only problem is addictive billing by doctors.
In effect you are downsizing the healthcare industry by addressing all of the players: Drug companies, doctors, insurance companies and lawyers.
Downsize the cash-cow.
Carla Massoni says
Nice work – Steve Cades.
Stephan Sonn says
Downsizing isn’t suicide for a well intended program like Medicare. It depends on who and what you cut.
Every industrial country in this world but South Africa and the US treats healthcare with great respect ;
their most respected UTILITY
Our healthcare system is inflated because too many players have piled on and turned it into a cash cow confabulation rather than life tool.
If you believe that raw capitalism as the cure for every mission:
There will be not only rationing but deprivation.
Public hospice houses instead of poor houses.
That is how it will work in the cities that 80% of the population lives.
In Japan there are Pullman hotels where you rent a sleeping berth enclosed like a coffin
I would hate to see the urban aged farmed out to places like Kent County. and treated like veal.
Sorry for the dramatics but worshiping capitalism does not recognize the inherent limitations.
Medicare is a budget monster and the cure is reorganization that involves price controls.
Sorry about that.
sheila says
Tort reform doesn’t work. I lived in Texas when they passed tort reform and it didn’t lower the cost of malpractice insurance and doctors left in droves. The only places with doctors were Dallas, Houston and San Antonio. We had to make an eight hour trip to see a specialist for my daughter. These were routine specialist visits for a condition that needed monitoring, not something life threatening. Our neighbor’s child had cancer and had to make a 16 hour round trip to see the specialist. The only oncologists they could see were in Houston and we were on the on the opposite end of the state. I think that health care needs major reform, but I also think that tort reform is way oversold as a solution.
Stephan Sonn says
In the spirit of compromise I went along with tort knowing that it only had minor impact.
I was waiting for a similar concession from Ms. McGinnes. People don’t always choose a mantra logically. Sometimes the emotional appeal of belief system is the siren call.
Stephan Sonn says
@Sheila
Sorry i initially missed the full context of your comment. So that’s how they do it in Texas.
How can anybody, with kids or without, be subjected to such a heartless health care delivery system and a state government that practically fosters it.
And Texas anti-healthcare reform movement is a model of efficiency for red states.?
What is it about Texas?
Steve Payne says
“In addition, regulations imposed to protect the environment have prevented us from having an efficient energy policy, at great cost to the smooth functioning of our daily lives… witness the high gasoline prices that currently are a direct result of not being able to produce our own oil and natural gas in America”
US oil production is at its highest levels in over 10 years. There are many reasons causing high gas prices but one you seldom hear about is this:
https://www.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mttexus2&f=a
Bill says
The title of the original post captured the issue succinctly. At some point, people are going to say enough is enough. The plastic bag mandate crossed that line, and beyond.
And by the way, the repeated references to Tea Baggers in this and other threads is so patently offensive that one wonders why this language and its author aren’t banned by the moderator and this fellow sent off to the Baltimore Sun to spread his poison.
Stephan Sonn says
I was recently advised that T Bagger is used in another context besides what the national press assigns as a member of the tea party.
Evidently a reader here is familiar with the other syntax context and took offense. He may indeed bothered by the terms alternate meaning. However I do not understand what this has to do with… “some fellow sent off to the Baltimore Sun”
Is this supposed to mean Was The Sun influenced by some Chestertown fellow, to demean the Tea party?
It is hard to be offended by the common syntax of mass media repetition
unless one is predisposed to be so offended.
Since when did the Tea Party II become so politically correct?
Heavens to Betsy!
Bill says
If you don’t know how the phrase “tea bagger” is used these days, and by whom, and you use it anyway in public discourse, then shame on you.
If you DO know how the phrase “tea bagger” is used these days, and by whom, and you use it anyway in public discourse, then shame on you.
Either way, shame on you.
Stephan Sonn says
Tea Bagger became the mass media buzz word for tea party member long before I became aware of your pornographic interpretation.
In the event that you are a tea party member I wonder why you keep bringing up an outdated use of the syntax. If you didn’t bring up the matter so often there would be no problem.
This script is getting old and doesn’t work here unless you feel you just have have to press the point.
Other tea party members posting here score higher points by addressing the issues.
PS
The tea bagging syntax you dwell on dates back to 1960’s college frat house hazing
and was initially called dunking.
I can certainly avoid the term if it offends your party.
Editor says
Editor Note: Given the sensitivity regarding this word or phrase, the Spy kindly asked commentators to refrain from using the term. We will also delete it from comments in the future.
StellaL says
Importing Foreign Oil, domestic drilling in sensitive areas. All at a huge cost for our country and environment. Really, can we stop thinking of just fossil fuels or do the big oil CEOs have such a lock on the Republican’s way of thinking about energy? I wonder…
MBTroup says
“do the big oil CEOs have such a lock on the Republican’s way of thinking about energy?”
Nope. It’s about energy reliability while companies find ways to build efficiencies into the distribution of newer energy sources. There was a time when it took 6 gallons of regular gasoline to yield 5 gallons of ethanol. How we got here, I don’t know.
Mike says
Way to go Steve Payne. The misinformed statements from Ms. McGinnes regarding oil production run rampant every time we hit a price spike at the pump. I’m glad someone finally addressed Ms. McGinnes’ incorrect statement that high gas prices “are a direct result of not being able to produce our own oil and natural gas in America.” She fails to understand the scale of global oil consumption and what actually drives the price of a barrel of crude.
According to a 2009 study from the government’s Energy Information Administration, opening up waters that are currently closed to drilling off the East Coast, West Coast and the west coast of Florida would yield an extra 500,000 barrels a day by 2030.
The world currently consumes 89 million barrels a day, and by then would likely be using over 100 million barrels.
After OPEC got done adjusting its production to reflect the increased American output, gas prices might drop a whopping 3 cents a gallon, the study said.
“More production from anywhere would tend to lower prices,” said Adam Sieminski, chief energy economist at Deutsche Bank. “But the amount that we’re talking about domestically, it wouldn’t move gas prices from $4 a gallon to $3.”
In fact, more domestic oil is just what we’ve been seeing and gasoline prices are still going up.
Including liquids from natural gas, biofuels and other products that are all used to make gasoline, the United States now produces 9.7 million barrels of oil a day, according to EIA. That’s the most oil this country has pumped in 20 years, and puts it just behind Saudi Arabia and Russia as the world’s top producer.
Bill says
From the Wall Street Journal:
“On January 1, 2012, seven months from this week, Washington will effectively ban the sale of conventional 100 watt incandescent light bulbs that Americans have used nearly since the days of Thomas Edison. ”
This from the same government using the “common wealth” to put shrimp on treadmills, etc.
The tipping point was a while ago….
Bill